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11-01-2009, 02:05 PM crazyivan Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 1,605 Poll: whats first? whats first? Golan the life of the average Syrian Golan   (20%) the life of the average Syrian   (80%) Total votes: 5    Report

11-01-2009, 02:09 PM crazyivan Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 1,605 Re: Poll: whats first? what I mean is: what do u think is more URGENT? getting back the Golan Heights? or improving the Syrian economy in ways that would benefit the average Syrian?    Report

11-01-2009, 03:32 PM DeadManwalkingExtra Joined on 11-29-2005 nos su-umus... magni eri... munitores pyramidum... Posts 1,409 Re: Poll: whats first? I don't like Hights Viva La Revolución    Report

11-02-2009, 05:25 AM za3boot Joined on 11-20-2005 Posts 8,459 Re: Poll: whats first? i don't think the golan issue has ever been the number 1 concern for anybody in syria on both levels govt and people including the Golanis themselves! the priority number 1 is, and should only be, the economy....but of course everything is interrelated and getting the golan heights back means peace in the region aka stability which in turn attracts direct foreign investments which is very important for the economy... bass ino regardless of the way we look at it....peacefully recapturing the heights should not hinder in anyway the focus on the economy and the betterment of the average syrian....sadly tho...the return of the heights, in par with israel/palestine issue, have been the escape goat for ages of excessive spending on the so-called none-existent army...    Report

11-02-2009, 08:41 AM blawlashi Joined on 11-20-2005 Posts 11,815 Re: Poll: whats first? neither .. what we need really is to concentrate on the new generation .. the children .. provide proper education .. better living conditions .. forget our generation .. you cannot change us .. we've already screwed up مقسومين .. لك قوم فوت نام وصير حلام    Report

11-02-2009, 09:05 AM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? can we just eat first though? i'm pretty hungry    Report

11-02-2009, 09:07 AM DeadManwalkingExtra Joined on 11-29-2005 nos su-umus... magni eri... munitores pyramidum... Posts 1,409 Re: Poll: whats first?  blawlashi wrote: neither .. what we need really is to concentrate on the new generation .. the children .. provide proper education .. better living conditions .. forget our generation .. you cannot change us .. we've already screwed up nice words, but in regard of the new generation what should we teach them to choose because i believe as if our responsibility to let them think and choose right choices... to teach them and tell them about the falls and the mistakes we made...because as long as we think the same way, as long as we act the same way....the new generation will inherit our old bad habits and nothing would change....the bottom line : What would you advise the new generation to choose. Viva La Revolución    Report

11-03-2009, 12:18 AM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? the food guys.. what happened? who is ordering the pizza? i voted Golan for all practical reasons (which are too numerous to tell)    Report

11-03-2009, 07:55 AM DeadManwalkingExtra Joined on 11-29-2005 nos su-umus... magni eri... munitores pyramidum... Posts 1,409 Re: Poll: whats first? we have no money to order the damn pizza Viva La Revolución    Report

11-04-2009, 08:40 AM crazyivan Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 1,605 Re: Poll: whats first?  blawlashi wrote: neither .. what we need really is to concentrate on the new generation .. the children .. provide proper education .. better living conditions .. forget our generation .. you cannot change us .. we've already screwed up well good point with the proper education.. But everything you said requires a good economy, not the Golan... + I don't think we really screwed up... Who screwed up were mostly our parents, generation x, and now we're paying for their screw-ups... I mean I was not there when Israel was declared or when all these war were fought (unless if you count recent Israeli aggressions as wars, I don't really). These were the real ***-ups.. Now, off course we are the "weaker" part of the equation (weaker militarily and economically and socially, we only win morally  after all these years of generation -x fuckups :)    Report

11-04-2009, 12:34 PM blawlashi Joined on 11-20-2005 Posts 11,815 Re: Poll: whats first? I disagree .. we screwed up big time .. I will explain later .. or I won't .. depends on the shape of the moon مقسومين .. لك قوم فوت نام وصير حلام    Report

11-04-2009, 07:40 PM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? the moon looks like a giant a$$ right now.. does that help? so for all practical purposes.. the Syrian regime had no hope to return the Golan by force so it had to resort to these political games that it played in neighboring countries.. these things had to include a very tight grip on the local level otherwise you won't be able to withstand foreign interference for example.. let's say you have democracy in Syria.. then in the hostile environment of the 70's and 80's then all what you would have accomplished is high instability with so many elements and groups acting in different ways what we were able to accomplish in a dictatorship-style Syria is stability which is, although not ideal, but i think is the only viable option at the moment so we need to go forward with the peace plan, get the Golan back, and then and only then it will be slightly possible to get actual reform ... now we are in good terms with Turkey and imagine if we become in good times with Israel.. combined with the lack of Saddam Hussein (the third and only other real threat).. then things will become much smoother and calls for democracy and change will be much stronger basically.. i don't think democracy is necessarily a good thing at all times.. u need some centralized dictatorship at times to ride out tough times.. the thing that sucks for us is that these tough times have been dragging on forever.. but NOTHING will work without getting the peace process forward.. our government will not invest in people's education until there is real pressure to do so.. and this can only happen if you have a strong economy.. which will only happen if you have peace    Report

11-05-2009, 03:13 AM Jedidiah777 Joined on 02-22-2006 Posts 781 Re: Poll: whats first? I don't really know much about pizzas and hights in Syria... and do not necessarily want to share my opinion here... but with one thing that you just stated, Stalwart, I wholeheartely agree, quote: basically.. i don't think democracy is necessarily a good thing at all times... It's sad but true and does not only apply for Syria, but for so many other countries that call themselves "democratic".  I am so glad to know that the end result of some issues/mess (which can not be really solved by men), will be taken care of some glad morning...    Report

11-05-2009, 06:10 AM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? what do you mean cannot be taken care by men? are you suggesting women are the solution for our political problems?    Report

11-05-2009, 10:44 AM za3boot Joined on 11-20-2005 Posts 8,459 Re: Poll: whats first?  stalwart wrote: but NOTHING will work without getting the peace process forward.. our government will not invest in people's education until there is real pressure to do so.. and this can only happen if you have a strong economy.. which will only happen if you have peace This is so naive! You are basing everything on the assumption that peace=political reform... I didn't see reforms in Egypt after signing on peace with Israel. Of course Egypt has been receiving financial aids but Egypt is worse than Syria in GDP per capita. Syria will not have any pressure for major political reform, which is what we really need, if peace is achieved, but rather some pressure on human rights issues for PR purposes only. As long as Syria is stable from the inside and its internal striff is properly conatined, there is no need for reform. I don't think crazyivan meant discussing the means but rather weighing, and maybe comparing between, the importance of two of the many thorny topics of the Syrian reality.    Report

11-05-2009, 11:50 AM DeadManwalkingExtra Joined on 11-29-2005 nos su-umus... magni eri... munitores pyramidum... Posts 1,409 Re: Poll: whats first?  za3boot wrote:  stalwart wrote: but NOTHING will work without getting the peace process forward.. our government will not invest in people's education until there is real pressure to do so.. and this can only happen if you have a strong economy.. which will only happen if you have peace This is so naive! You are basing everything on the assumption that peace=political reform... I didn't see reforms in Egypt after signing on peace with Israel. Of course Egypt has been receiving financial aids but Egypt is worse than Syria in GDP per capita. Syria will not have any pressure for major political reform, which is what we really need, if peace is achieved, but rather some pressure on human rights issues for PR purposes only. As long as Syria is stable from the inside and its internal striff is properly conatined, there is no need for reform. I don't think crazyivan meant discussing the means but rather weighing, and maybe comparing between, the importance of two of the many thorny topics of the Syrian reality. you said you didn't see any reforms in Egypt after signing on peace with Israel...and I'm curious on what reference you are basing those claims... have you been in Egypt recently??.....where are talking about Internal reforms, despite the receiving of financial aids you've mentioned, there is many things have been changed in Egypt the last few years and I got this informations from the Egyptians themselves. many reforms have been achieved  Financially, Economically, Industrially, Educationally, Residentially....but we should not forget how huge Egypt is, and it takes a long time process to see the final results.....the Peace Agreement brings good whether we like it or not........for the record in Egypt the fuel price is cheaper than the Gulf!!!...in Egypt you can Import a single car without being forced to pay a huge amount of bullshit Taxes!!..........it's simple when there is peace you won't need to spend more money on the military and you will have the chance to invest that money on other things....things for the people.....But I agree with you that in Syria it takes more than peace to perform changes and achieve reforms....it takes what everyone know but try to avoid.... Viva La Revolución    Report

11-05-2009, 12:06 PM AXELSTONE Joined on 11-20-2005 Always Lurking .. Always In Darkness Posts 7,990 Re: Poll: whats first? improving economy A Victim Of God's Desires    Report

11-05-2009, 05:38 PM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? of course za3boot it's not that simple but any calls for democratic change right now are faced with the dreaded accusation of treason. In a post-peace-agreement syria, things will be different just like now in Egypt people can openly talk about change. Of course nothing will come easy but this is one major obstacle and before this happens i think it's a waste of time to dream about better education and better Syrian economy.. even though obviously to educate and empower the Syrian people is a much higher priority than getting the Golan back, still for all pragmatic reasons this will not happen so why bother vote for it ..    Report

11-05-2009, 11:07 PM za3boot Joined on 11-20-2005 Posts 8,459 Re: Poll: whats first?  DeadManwalkingExtra wrote:  za3boot wrote:  stalwart wrote: but NOTHING will work without getting the peace process forward.. our government will not invest in people's education until there is real pressure to do so.. and this can only happen if you have a strong economy.. which will only happen if you have peace This is so naive! You are basing everything on the assumption that peace=political reform... I didn't see reforms in Egypt after signing on peace with Israel. Of course Egypt has been receiving financial aids but Egypt is worse than Syria in GDP per capita. Syria will not have any pressure for major political reform, which is what we really need, if peace is achieved, but rather some pressure on human rights issues for PR purposes only. As long as Syria is stable from the inside and its internal striff is properly conatined, there is no need for reform. I don't think crazyivan meant discussing the means but rather weighing, and maybe comparing between, the importance of two of the many thorny topics of the Syrian reality. you said you didn't see any reforms in Egypt after signing on peace with Israel...and I'm curious on what reference you are basing those claims... have you been in Egypt recently??.....where are talking about Internal reforms, despite the receiving of financial aids you've mentioned, there is many things have been changed in Egypt the last few years and I got this informations from the Egyptians themselves. many reforms have been achieved  Financially, Economically, Industrially, Educationally, Residentially....but we should not forget how huge Egypt is, and it takes a long time process to see the final results.....the Peace Agreement brings good whether we like it or not........for the record in Egypt the fuel price is cheaper than the Gulf!!!...in Egypt you can Import a single car without being forced to pay a huge amount of bullshit Taxes!!..........it's simple when there is peace you won't need to spend more money on the military and you will have the chance to invest that money on other things....things for the people.....But I agree with you that in Syria it takes more than peace to perform changes and achieve reforms....it takes what everyone know but try to avoid.... Very simple...look at and compare economic figures and you will see for yourself. Size is not a factor as we are looking at percentages and Egypt does not lack resources like Jordan for instance. Now we have two countries, one that has been living in peace for decades and one that has been in a state of war and regional unrest for, well, ever.  Egypt, which has peace and international support hence enormous financial aids have been pouring since the 70s, has significantly higher percentage of people living under the poverty line than Syria does; extremely higher public debt, slightly the same unemployment rate and much higher precentage of budget deficit compared to Syria's. Egypt relies heavily on imports while its exports are half that rate, unlike Syria that has somewhat balanced export to import ratio. The issue at hand is not about comparison who is better as the two countries have poor econonies. We are merely discussing the assumption of stalwart that peace is the key to a better life and political reform in Syria which will in turn lead to a better economy. That aint the case in Egypt that lives in peace and is run by likeminded regime. While peace should indeed lead to a booming economy, but the way those countries are run, it wouldn't make much of a difference in this case. We need a change of mentality, better management and much less corruption if we are ever going to consider a better life for average Syrians.    Report

11-05-2009, 11:59 PM crazyivan Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 1,605 Re: Poll: whats first? We have to make an important distinction here between peace on paper and peace on the ground. While Egypt has had a peace agreement with Israel for a while, I think that Syria have been much more peaceful on the ground. The last real problem we had ended in 1982. As far as I know, no foreigners (including khaliji people) have ever been hurt or kidnapped in Syria, apart from the some Palestinian and Syrian leadership, who usually are assassinated quietly and effectively without much noise or loss of innocent life. In Egypt, tourists have been targeted occasionally, and there have been clashes between Muslims and Christians. And I know that the process of development does not happen overnight, but if it took Egypt 30 years to make these little adjustments (i.e. low taxes on cars), then I'm assuming that the peace process has nothing to do with it?  Why don't we look at Israel as an example. They have been having more trouble than Syria since their very existence. but their economy is comparable to that of the west. They live in the same environment that we do. and what I meant in this topic is what will lead to the other? will getting the Golan lead to a better economy as Stalwart pointed? or vise versa. I believe that a stronger and richer Syria will get the Golan back much more easily. Why would Israel give the Golan now? I don't think there's anything wrong in admitting that we are the weaker part here and that Israel will not give up such a strategic piece of land to somebody who does not pose a real threat. Thank god the leadership in Syria was able to see Hizbollah as a pressure card because it's the only thing that might pressure the Israeli government to give up the Golan. But I really doubt that this card is good enough to convince them to do so.    Report

11-06-2009, 12:27 AM DeadManwalkingExtra Joined on 11-29-2005 nos su-umus... magni eri... munitores pyramidum... Posts 1,409 Re: Poll: whats first? Hey!!!??? they have Al-Falafel now!!! bloody bastards...Israel I mean  Viva La Revolución    Report

11-06-2009, 12:57 AM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? Of course a strong economy will get us the Golan eventually and so will a strong military and a nice nuclear arsenal.. but all of these are without reach !! so we have to work with what we have.. and what we have is to keep playing the bad boy until the international community and Israel are convinced that no real progress can happen in the region without signing peace with Syria and giving them back the Golan.. which by the way we were pretty close at getting a while ago apparently when we say peace, it doesn't necessarily mean the same peace model that egypt is having.. egypt is only officially at peace with Israel but in reality the people are not at peace with each other.. the peace that i'm talking about is one that is true and final and that allows average syrians and israelis to do business together and that will transform the whole region into a giant cultural, historical and industrial powerhouse.. but this will take work.. and will eventually benefit all of us it's more like a work of science fiction right now but still the gateway is through pushing forward with the peace process.. real peace that will make everybody satisfied not fake peace like that of egypt's also.. Israel needs peace as well. don't be fooled by the apparent "advance" of the israeli economy. although i'm not expert on israel society and internal affairs.. but i do get the impression that they have loads of internal legal problems, racial divisions, inequalities and deep philosophical and moral questions that can make it hard for them to form strong governments.. do you think the israeli government is exactly thrilled about having armed settlers who are both idiots and dangerous? of course not.. so they too want to solve their problems and get going with their lives and business we just don't know about their problems and need for peace as much as we know our own problems and need for peace i would recommend a good book for u my children but i don't know any .. L0L    Report

11-06-2009, 01:03 AM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? don't forget that the initial zionist movement has always been a secular movement making use of religious fairy tales to accomplish political goals.. in reality.. i'm sure they hate their own jewish religious extremist as much as we our own religious problems so ultimately if israel reaches peace they will still have to face problems from their settlers and ultra orthodox fractions.. in a nuttshell.. we and them will have the same enemy (i.e. a chance for a real meaningful peace and cooperation) on the other hand.. what will the "education" route accomplish for us as a nation with aspirations for peace and progress? what would we do with millions of Syrians with PhDs if there are no investments and no industries for them to work in? they will just sit around playing with their balls or leave to the West as usual    Report

11-06-2009, 02:23 AM Jedidiah777 Joined on 02-22-2006 Posts 781 Re: Poll: whats first?  stalwart wrote: what do you mean cannot be taken care by men? are you suggesting women are the solution for our political problems? by no means I mean women …but mankind! Men receive truth slowly, error quickly. TFT    Report

11-06-2009, 02:59 AM stalwart Joined on 11-19-2005 Posts 7,887 Re: Poll: whats first? yes i agree.. viruses and bacteria will likely cause many future catastrophes .. but how can we consider that a solution? unless they particularly infect conservatives and zionists..    Report

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Souriaty Club » English Discuss... » Souria's Social... » Poll: whats first?

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